tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post8688129309887886085..comments2024-03-01T12:20:20.094-08:00Comments on The Family Connection: William Smith Bryan: A lesson in Fantastic 17th Century English/Irish Genealogy SourcesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-25074940080494695062023-10-08T14:44:00.365-07:002023-10-08T14:44:00.365-07:00This is interesting, but everything I find leads t...This is interesting, but everything I find leads to William Smith Bryan being ousted to Virginia and his son Francis going back and his sons returning. Go to West Hill Cemetery in Salem VA and see the graves of some of the Bryan ancestors. In my research, I wasn't able to go to Bryan Island Cemetery but thankful to had read previous comments. History can definitely be confusing and that's why so many historians differ on what they believe. Thanks for the read on my 6th-8th Great Grandparents. (William Bryan)William Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-18764530436497936562023-09-18T08:35:38.904-07:002023-09-18T08:35:38.904-07:00I am very close to showing that yes, there was ind...I am very close to showing that yes, there was indeed a William Bryan of the time, a Morgan Bryan also whose wife Margaret died in Ireland. Most of all there never was a Francis Bryan II and this is misleading. So basically much of what has been written about William may very well prove to be true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-42519557678869201782022-06-01T05:24:00.141-07:002022-06-01T05:24:00.141-07:00https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/5242/1/Kevin_M...https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/5242/1/Kevin_McKenny_20140718104429.pdf<br />https://durrushistory.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/irishlandedgentr00ohar.pdf<br /><br />10.—THE "FORTY-NINE" OFFICERS.<br />Inrolments of the Adjudications" in favour of the (a.d.) 1649 Officers (formerly denominated " The '49 Lots ") : <br />Preserved in the Office of the Chief Remembrancer of the Exchequer, Dublin.—See Records of Ireland,Marked <br /><' 1821-1825," pp. 610-637.<br />Bryan, Francis<br /> Humphry<br /> John<br /> Patrick<br /> William<br /><br />These are Royalists who rendered service to the cause for resisting Cromwell in Ireland and for which compensation <br />in money or land was provided for in the Charles II act of Settlement after the Restoration of <br />the monarchy circa 1670.<br /><br />If I am reading this correctly then William Smith Bryan, who returned to Ireland to claim estates, may be <br />referring to his right as an hier to the land above. Francis and William Bryan are clearly mentioned and <br />the spelling Bryan distinguishes his claim from those of the native O'Briens.<br /><br />A William Smith was a claimant:<br />2243 William Smith, Gent. <br /> Estate for Lives. <br /> By Deed dated the 9 February (81). Witness Hen. Hickman, & al. <br /> Castles, Town, and 2 Plowlands called Cahirmoroghove and Cahirmore. <br /> B. Clondiralae. Co. Clare. <br /> Lord Clare<br />2244 William Smith, Gent. <br /> Estate for Lives. <br /> By Deed dated the 16 of February, (71). Witness John Harte, & al. <br /> The Lands of Tullagover and Gower-Hast. B. Moyarta. Co. Clare. <br /> Lord ClareDr. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05147265804327051519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-74647817775696208342022-06-01T02:07:32.681-07:002022-06-01T02:07:32.681-07:00Having looked into this matter a little I do find ...Having looked into this matter a little I do find ample reference to William Bryan, Francis Bryan, William Smith (possible father of Ann Smith) in the<br />literature on The Act of Settlement following the Restoration of the Monarchy circa 1670 in which those rendering service to the Royalists in Ireland from<br />the Williamite to the Cromwellian incursions can claim compensation in money or land.<br /><br />I simplify the entries below:<br />https://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/5242/1/Kevin_McKenny_20140718104429.pdf<br />https://durrushistory.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/irishlandedgentr00ohar.pdf<br /><br />10.—THE "FORTY-NINE" OFFICERS.<br />Inrolments of the Adjudications" in favour of the (a.d.) 1649 Officers (formerly denominated " The '49 Lots ") : <br />Preserved in the Office of the Chief Remembrancer of the Exchequer, Dublin.—See Records of Ireland,Marked <br /><' 1821-1825," pp. 610-637.<br />Bryan, Francis<br /> Humphry<br /> John<br /> Patrick<br /> William<br /><br />These are Royalists who rendered service to the cause for resisting Cromwell in Ireland and for which compensation <br />in money or land was provided for in the Charles II act of Settlement after the Restoration of <br />the monarchy circa 1670.<br /><br />If I am reading this correctly then William Smith Bryan, who returned to Ireland to claim estates, may be <br />referring to his right as an hier to the land above. Francis and William Bryan are clearly mentioned and <br />the spelling Bryan distinguishes his claim from those of the native O'Briens.<br /><br />A William Smith was a claimant:<br />2243 William Smith, Gent. <br /> Estate for Lives. <br /> By Deed dated the 9 February (81). Witness Hen. Hickman, & al. <br /> Castles, Town, and 2 Plowlands called Cahirmoroghove and Cahirmore. <br /> B. Clondiralae. Co. Clare. <br /> Lord Clare<br />2244 William Smith, Gent. <br /> Estate for Lives. <br /> By Deed dated the 16 of February, (71). Witness John Harte, & al. <br /> The Lands of Tullagover and Gower-Hast. B. Moyarta. Co. Clare. <br /> Lord Clare<br /><br />I know this does not prove that WSB was a son of FB but it does show that WSB would have good cause to return and see whether he could retrieve something of an earlier estate.Dr. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05147265804327051519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-397960347626042632022-05-31T00:28:04.387-07:002022-05-31T00:28:04.387-07:00Jeannie has done a wonderful job in setting us off...Jeannie has done a wonderful job in setting us off on a search for evidence to support a much published connection between WSB an the FBs. Jeannie's argument is that:<br />(a) No evidence for FB 1 having a son FB 2.<br />(b) No record of land for FB in Clare.<br />(c) Denmark enigma.<br />(d) No record of WSB in Va.<br />Hence WSB is the figment of someone's imagination.<br /><br />I have examined the (b) issue and found that there is evidence in the confiscations and claims for return of land for a Francis O'Brien. In the same claims there is a mention for William Smith and a John Smith. I don't want to quibble but the spelling of Brien, O'Brien, Bryan in interchangeable. I am now looking to see what I can find about the William Smith being perhaps the father of an Ann Smith.<br />Regarding (d) there does seem to be land records for WSB in Va. <br /><br />I am thinking that there might be a case to answer for conflating a Bryan (English) family with an O'Brien (Irish ) family.Dr. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05147265804327051519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-80233628839888600352022-05-29T17:11:09.732-07:002022-05-29T17:11:09.732-07:00Jeannie, thank you for your relentless research on...Jeannie, thank you for your relentless research on William Smith Bryan. I've always come to a standstill with my ancestor John Adam/Adam O'Brien. Many researchers place him in line with Cornelius Bryan, as father and Brian Bryan as great grandfather. I hesitate to go any further back with these individuals as noted in many research sites as being descendants of Sir Frances Bryan II and so on. My Adam O'Bien/OBryan/Bryan families have posted names without the "real" research and only by site from Ancestry, My Heritage, Geni, Family Search and so on with so much inaccuracy it's ludicrous. The O'Brien name is prevalent throughout Europe. However, when the Irish came to America they had to drop the "O" from their sir name. In those days the Irish were treated as bad as the slaves who came to America from Africa. The Irish were told by friends and family to drop their "O" to protect themselves from such fate. So, why would I want to add a "possible" descendant such as Francis Bryan II and his families when their name was already originally Bryan and not O'Brien/O'Bryan. It doesn't add up. Many records of families were destroyed in Ireland during the uprisings. Therefore I find it hard to believe when a distant cousin sends me records dating back to the "royals". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-15761556079889403582021-10-27T07:53:35.130-07:002021-10-27T07:53:35.130-07:00This cautionary research is well done and thank yo...This cautionary research is well done and thank you for sharing with us and reminding us that proof is a very elusive thing. I find that the absence of records to prove anything is quite common and just because we do not have records of Bryan land holdings, knighthoods etc. does not mean they were never land owners or knights. My Father's war records went up in a fire as did my grandfather's and hence they never fought in the wars because no official records exist. And yet we have family letters, photographs, medals and so on to prove that they did. Regarding the Norway exile I think if a Cromwellian was about to skewer my cat flap I would be on the first ship out of Ireland regardless of its destination!Dr. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05147265804327051519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-49706873080050551662021-10-11T20:12:17.829-07:002021-10-11T20:12:17.829-07:00Thanks for your research and both posts on William...Thanks for your research and both posts on William Smith Bryan. When I got to him as possible ancestor, I too was puzzled by the lack of evidence. As a librarian, I get suspicious when someone is supposed to be famous, but doesn't show up in period sources. As a historian, my research focus is the intersection of myth and history--and this is a great example. So I have two areas of expertise, and both backing your research. Great job!<br />RBLambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14145606540613308957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-30162078569235071512021-01-06T19:08:49.705-08:002021-01-06T19:08:49.705-08:00Thank you to those that share their knowledge.
I a...Thank you to those that share their knowledge.<br />I am fairly new tracing my ancestry.<br />I can trace my 9th great-grandfather back to William Smith Bryan, WSB, (1600 -1667). He married Catherine Morgan (1604-1680). Their son was John Bryan (1626-1687).<br />I would appreciate and information prior this. And If I have made an error in the above information, please correct me. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-22144559772326969722020-11-04T13:42:54.581-08:002020-11-04T13:42:54.581-08:00I am also a descendant of Sir Francis Bryan and co...I am also a descendant of Sir Francis Bryan and coincidently from Virginia. My father was Eugene Kelsey Wilson IV. I have the full family tree and can let anyone know - if interested- dates and descendants. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15251604750141262742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-26530122078269839362020-08-30T08:11:03.057-07:002020-08-30T08:11:03.057-07:00The Bryan Island Family Cemetery was the burial pl...The Bryan Island Family Cemetery was the burial place of John Randolph Bryan and his family. John Randolph Bryan was born in Georgia in 1806 and died in 1887. He built his home, called the Eagle Point Plantation where he lived. The cemetery is on a small island nearby. There are only a handful of family graves which have been indexed. This cemetery did not exist before it was created by John Randolph Bryan. Just because it's on Findagrave, doesn't mean it's real. <br /><br />The US and Canada Passenger Lists 1500-1900s are based on user input. There are not a definitive source and cannot be used to prove the existence of arrival of William Smith Bryan. Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15194445287017929244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-16026338059047425032020-08-29T16:51:58.130-07:002020-08-29T16:51:58.130-07:00Hello Jeannie,
I found memorials in Bryans Island...Hello Jeannie,<br /><br />I found memorials in Bryans Island Cemetery, Goucester County, Virginia, USA. (A small family cemetery located on an island off Eagle Point Plantation. Accessible only by water, the cemetery is enclosed by a brick wall amidst a grove of Magnolia trees.)There are 10 memorials in all. Find a Grave Cemetery #2358438. Listed as Ann Smith, 1549-1635, Catherine Morgan Bryan, June 1603-June 1680, Francis Bryan II, 11 June 1640, & William Smith Bryan June 1579-June 1667. There are 6 other presumptive relatives in which I did not research. Note: I found two find a grave index, 1600s-current listings which are very similar, but have different gravesites: One is the Bryan Family Cemetery & the other listsAbingdon Episcopal Church Cemetery, White Marsh, Gloucester County, Virginia, USA.<br />I found a listing for William Smith Bryan in the U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index 1500s-1900s. He is listed as arriving in 1650, arrival place is listed as Virginia, USA under family members: is reads family, source publication # 9448. In the years from 1925 to 1942, Frederick A. virkus edited seven volumes with the title, The Abridged Compendium of American Genealogy, published in Chicago by the Institute of American Genealogy. Each volume has a section in the main body of the work, Virkus Frederick A., editor. Immigrant Ancestors: A list of 2,500 immigrants to America before 1750. Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1964. 75 p. Repr. 1986 Source Citation Place: Virginia, Year: 1659, Page Number:16. I found this on Ancestry.com. To me, this alone proves the story is factual, as well as the burial cemetery information.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02910358622552998202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-35736401030563458132020-08-25T14:12:36.627-07:002020-08-25T14:12:36.627-07:00Our Ancestry follows this bloodline as well & ...<br />Our Ancestry follows this bloodline as well & both my daughter & my brother's DNA reports support this claim as they are fairly compatible, 49.6% English/Irish, French/German & Broadly Northwestern Europe. Apparently William Smith Bryan's bloodline followed through Ireland, England, France, Germany, & Scandinavian countries it is easy to see that it leads to royalty in several different countries.<br /><br />Even though any documentation concerning the parentage of Francis Bryan II has apparently been destroyed to disinherit the titles & lands of his parentage. It was my understanding that it was Francis Bryan II who inherited lands from his mother's in Clare, Ireland. I realize there has not been any proof of Francis Bryan II's parentage, but Sir Francis Bryan I, was born June 1490 in Cheddington, Buckinghamshire, England. He was the son of Sir Thomas Bryan & Lady Margaret Bourchier, daughter of Humphrey Bourchier. Francis Bryan I reportedly married Lady Joan Fitz-Gerald, Countess of Ormond, the widow of James Butler & daughter & heiress of James Fitz-Maurice Fitz-Gerald & Amy O'Brian in 1548 in Burkinghamshire, England. Francis Bryan II, was born June 11, 1549 in Clare, Ireland. Sir Francis Bryan I died February 02, 1550 at the age of 59 & he is buried in the Old St. Mary's Churchyard, at Clonmel, Tipperary, Ireland. <br /><br />If it was the English peers intention to disinherit future heirs of Ireland, it is easy to understand why there is no mention of Francis Bryan II in their records. Apparently Joan Fitz-Gerald hated the power & control of her husband, Francis Bryan I understandably & intended to marry her cousin prior to Francis Bryan I's marriage. It is conceivable that her family did not wish to share her legacy with Francis' son. <br /><br />I must admit, I enjoyed reading & appreciate all your research. <br /><br />Beverly <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02910358622552998202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-33103067809328576542020-03-26T08:47:59.699-07:002020-03-26T08:47:59.699-07:00So WHO IS my 9th great-grandfather then?So WHO IS my 9th great-grandfather then?bellezahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01576269259683184741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6796453294242204514.post-42458905301011495262019-12-11T14:39:47.877-08:002019-12-11T14:39:47.877-08:00Fascinating. And well done. Sir Francis Bryan seem...Fascinating. And well done. Sir Francis Bryan seems to attract Bryan researchers like flies are attracted to honey. The lives of such well known historical figures are generally well documented, making fact checking relatively easy.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com